Beyond the system: Empowered by experience / De l’ombre à la lumière: Parcours de vie post DPJ

La notion de "famille" suite au placement-Conceptualising family after being care

Pour faire suite au dernier épisode du podcast du CCTEA qui portait sur la parentalité chez les anciens jeunes placés, cette fois-ci c’est au tour de Annie et de Janis de nous parler de leur conceptualisation de la famille, et comment leur rapport à la famille a été façonné par le fait d’avoir grandi sans la présence régulière de leurs parents biologiques. Puisque Annie et Janis ont eu des trajectoires de placement très différentes, leur perspectives dresse un portrait de différentes  visions possible de la famille, et comment la famille se construit pendant et suite au placement.
Cet épisode est en français. 
 
 
Following  from the last episode of our CCCYT podcast, which focused on parenting experiences among former  youth in care, this time  Annie and Janis share how they conceptualize family and how their relationship with family was shaped by growing up without the regular presence of their biological parents. Since Annie and Janis had very different placement trajectories, their perspectives provides different possible visions of family and how family is built during and after placement into Care.
This episode is in French. A translation of the full episode transcript is available below:
 
Transcript:
 
Introduction: Anaïs Cadieux Van Vliet
Welcome to Beyond the System: former youth in care, empowered by experience. Hosted by the Canadian Consortium on Child and Youth Trauma, Beyond the System is conceptualized and produced by a committee of lived experts who are former youth in care and advocates. Following on from the last episode, which focused on parenting experiences among former youth in care, this time it's Annie and Janis's turn to share how they conceptualize family and how their relationship with family is shaped by growing up without the regular presence of their biological parents. Since Annie and Janis had very different placement trajectories, their perspectives provide different possible visions of family and how family is built during and after placement into care. This episode is in French. You will find a translation of the full episode transcript in the show notes. We hope you enjoy listening to this episode as much as we enjoyed making it.
Annie
Hello, today we are with Janis and Annie, two former youth in care. Today, the topic we will be discussing is family. Janis decided to stay in touch with her biological family, while Annie decided to cut ties. That's what today's  podcast will focus on.  
Janis
Yes exactly.  Annie, how did you decide to stop talking to your biological family?  
Can you explain why? And how?
 
Annie
 To make a long story short, I was placed in foster care at the age of 2, and I went back and forth between my biological family and foster families several times. When you're young, you love your mom and dad, you love them, you carry them in your heart. They're still our parents, the people who matter most to us. But as you grow up, you lose some of that naivety and you understand certain things. For me, the realization came quite early, around the age of 10, I think. I understood that my parents, whom I now refer to as my progenitor, had not played their role of parents. That's how I started to distance myself from progenitors. But it's not like, you know, I say that, I call them my progenitors, but I didn't do that from the age of 10. I called them Mom and Dad in my everyday life, and it was only at the age of 25, during my last therapy sessions, that I decided to call them progenitors to differentiate between Luc and Pauline, who are now my family, the ones I consider my mother and father, but I don't call them Mom and Dad. It's something, it's a word I'm not really able to say, like I'll never tell you I'll never call my mother Pauline mom or Luc dad.  When I have (called them mom or dad), I kind of reacted like, "Oh my God, I'm sorry..." They're like: “you know, it's okay.” I'm not an adopted child. That's something you should know too, that I wasn't adopted. It's something I wish Youth protection Services had permitted, for me to be adopted. To this day, my biological father is deceased and my biological mother is still alive, and then, It's still kind of heartbreaking, like, OK, is she OK, is she not OK? But at the same time, I haven't spoken to her in a long time, but on the one hand, I'm fine. But the little Annie inside me would like to hear from her, so that's kind of how I feel about my biological family and my family today.
Janis
Do you ever feel like talking to her even though you've cut off contact? Do you have any questions or things you'd like to ask her?
Annie
I would say that there are times when I catch myself thinking about her, but at the same time, I don't really want to know how she's doing. But the part of me that doesn't want to know how she's doing is really the grown-up Annie of today, on the cusp of 30, who doesn't need that toxic person in her life. But the little Annie deep down inside me is like, you know, I'd like her to care about me, to wonder how I'm doing, what I'm going to do with my life, what my favorite color is. Then you know, it's just about being interested in me because my mother always introduced me as, “hey, this is my daughter, she has beautiful eyes, and she's beautiful.” But I think my good, I think. I believe I have much more value than just my physical appearance. Yes, I am a beautiful woman, but I have skills, I have ambitions, I have dreams. It's something that when your family knows you at your core, they're usually interested in the person you want to become.
Janis
Yeah, it's not just about looks.
Annie
No, that's it, I mean, that's how it is today, too, it's all compliments. But I have more difficulties because I'm like, but I'm not just beautiful, I have other things, I have other things I'm capable of doing in life than just being beautiful, if you want to put it that way. But you're different from me. You decided to stay in touch with your biological parents. Why and how did you come to that decision?
Janis
Well, because when I was very young, my mother was a single parent. You should know that I have two brothers and a sister, but we're all half-siblings. So the brother who was with me and my mother is the one who raised me. There's a nine-year age difference between us. So he was like a father figure to me until I was nine. When he was nine, he placed himself into foster care, so he left, and my mother, since she had never really taken care of me and wasn't capable of taking care of a child, she sent me to a foster family. But throughout my placement, it was always the same. Sure, like I said earlier, she wasn't a very emotionally present mother, like she never understood my needs 100%. But she did provide me with all my basic physical needs. So if I needed, I don't know... Help with food, help with... You know, it was very material, she was my motherbut she was a rather superficial person. And she said so herself, for her, physical appearance is important. And that's something she passed on to me. For me, my physical appearance has become important, how I look. Because for her it's important, it was the first thing. Then after that, until I was 23 or 24, we kind of had a falling out, and now I'm a bit torn about whether I want to keep talking to her or not. Because I love her, I adore her. She's my mother. She did her best, and today, I understand why she is the way she is. You know, I know that at the end of the day, her goal was not to hurt me, but I know that she has her own demons that she hasn't healed. But in any case, it affects me so negatively that I have a hard time continuing in this situation. I have a hard time seeing myself, OK, but in the long run, what will a relationship like this lead to? Because it's toxic. In a way, it's like she still sees me as a child, she still treats me like Janis, 9 years old, before I was placed in foster care, so you know, it isn't a normal dynamic, if I can say that, between a mother and her child. we can't have normal conversations or she's not really interested in me and wants to build something solid. So that's why I love her the way I do, but at the same time, it really hurts me to keep talking to her. As for my father, I have no contact with him. I see him once in a while, but I don't want to have anything deep with him. You know, it's very superficial, like, "Hi, how are you? " I also have a little sister, she's 20 and I'm very close to her. I grew up with her from the age of 12 to 18. Then, when I was 18, I decided to move into an apartment, but we have such a special connection. I don't have that connection with anyone else in the family, and I really love her as if she were my baby. I don't know how to explain it. Right now, she's going through a difficult phase, and we're definitely a little more distant, but I feel that with time, when she gets older, when she understands things, you know, we'll reconnect and it'll be like it was before. And I have another brother, who is basically my father's son, and my little sister, who is my father's daughter. I don't see him as often because he lives far away, but I still have a normal relationship with him.    And I'm in close contact with my father's side of the family, so when I see my aunts and uncles, I'm really happy. They ask me how I'm doing sometimes, but it's like once a year. So they're not very present. You know, they're not like, "Hey, are we going to do something this weekend? Are we going to the cottage? Are we going skiing?" No, we really just see each other at Christmas, and that's pretty much it. So for me, it's kind of hard to really have the connection I need with them. But at the same time, I need them in my life because I grew up with them. They've always been there in their own way. So I didn't feel like I had no one.
Annie
You have brothers and sisters, but so do I. I only found out I had brothers and sisters when I was a teenager. Well, I had my little brother who followed me, who followed me to my foster families before, and then later, at age 15, I found out that we were a large family. On my mother's side, there were eight of us, and on my father's side, there were nine. But I didn't know any of them. How did I find out? My mother took out the YOUTH PROTECTION files and put them on the table, saying, "Read this." It was a huge pile of paper, all the YOUTH PROTECTION files. Then I tried to connect with them during my teenage years. As a teenager, you're already trying to figure out who you are as a person. Imagine discovering that there are new people in your life, new members of your family. It's something that's quite shocking, shocking and challenging. And all that. Then you say, okay, I'll give it a shot, I'll find a place for them in my life. Then finally, after meeting some of these people, I realized that they're really toxic people who take advantage of you or want something from you. So I decided to cut ties with them completely, to not create any connection with them. Then I really reconsidered in 2018, when my father died. There was a request that people come to the funeral. And my siblings were there saying how my father was the perfect man. He was the dad who was there. He was full of love, he was there for his children. Then there was me, like, "But we don't live in the same world!" I mean, I experienced abuse, I experienced violence, I experienced that, and I I don't understand how you can love someone like that, but at the same time, I had forgiven my father for everything he put me through, telling myself that it was normal.  Those were the years when I was most fragile. Then, during my therapy , I realized that what my father had done to me, whether in the bedroom, with his belt, or with the rulers, wasn't something a child is supposed to experience. It's not something a child should have to go through, so it's clear that it's not... They're not healthy people, that's not what family life is about, that's not it. That's not the love a father should give his child. But I realized that really late in life. But when I arrived at Luc and Pauline's house, I really bonded with Luc. I was really close to Luc, I did everything with Luc. Luc is really ambitious. He has plans, he's always running around, and you know, those who know me today, I can't sit still, and Luc and I are the same, we can't sit still. If we're sitting, it’s like: "Let's go, we've been sitting too long, let's do something!" And I'm that kind of person in life, always doing something, and relaxing is really difficult for me, but that's something Luc passed on to me, he's my foster dad, but he's my dad today, and he passed that on to me. And whenever I talk about my parents, I'll say Luc and Pauline, but that's it, I think that's... we... Our family is made up of the people we decide to put at the center of our lives. That's it.
Janis
How would you define the concept of family for young people who have been placed under the care of Youth Protection?
Annie
Well, I think, I would say that Youth Protection breaks up families, if you will, but that's not their goa,l of course. We can all agree that the Youth protection services want to ensure that young people are safe, and can return to their family environment if at all possible. But the thing is, when we young people are removed from our environment, we think it's our fault. We think we're the problem. But in the end, we're not the problem. Because most young people who are placed in foster care or in shelters or homes or institutions for young people, it's not because we're the problem, but because the problem started with parents who are unable to take care of their children, who didn't take their parental responsibilities seriously and who had children for whatever reason. Then they weren't able to take on their role as parents. So I think the word "family" is something very difficult to define because we don't have a family, we don't have the standard family model.. So we have to find our bearings to create that family, which we may never have known or don't know where to situate “family” in our lives. Because it's... If I take the example of myself in elementary school. For most kids, it was their mom or dad who picked them up from school, but for me, it wasn't my mom and dad who picked me up, it was like a guardian who picked me up to take me home, and it was, you know, it's like, "OK, well, I'm different from the others." Or, on weekends, there were family dinners and stuff like that, but I never experienced that before I came to live with Luc and Pauline, family events. So you know, before, I would see my friend who had gone shopping with my mom on the weekend, but I never really experienced going shopping with my mom before I came to Luc and Pauline's, where I would go with Pauline, we would go to little shops and then we would eat a chocolate bar and it was like, Oh, that was the best weekend activity! But that's it, it's about learning to make room for the people who are really good for you, who make you feel good, who can become your family. What about you?  
Janis
Hmmm... I think it's complicated when you're a young person in foster care because often you know you've had toxic relationships with your biological family, you know. And this is really a generalization, but you've been raised in chaos. So when you've experienced that, later on in your relationships, subconsciously, that's kind of what you're going to look for. You know, you don't want chaos, but if you're not living in chaos, it's going to be so unfamiliar that you won't feel like you belong. So I feel like with the concept of family, you really have to work on yourself, and you really have to understand where you come from, and try to heal your traumas as much as possible, so that you can then be able to accept healthy relationships. I don't know if that's clear, I don't know if it makes sense.
Annie
Yes, in life you have to surround yourself with people who are good for you and remove relationships that are toxic.
Janis
But I feel like when you haven't done the work or when there are things you don't understand, you're not going to be drawn to healthy relationships. Since you haven't experienced that kind of thing in early life.
Annie
Yeah, of course you want to turn to people who are like you. And I think that's how we function in life, turning to people who are going through the same things or who have experienced the same things. You know what I mean, young people in care, often end up creating a sense of family with other former youth in care, because they can relate to what the you, as a former youth in care have been through.
Janis
Yeah, it's  like a shared generational trauma.
Annie
Yeah. But there are also many whose past has shaped who they are today. Their past is still very, very present. And I would say that for me, it's really, you know, I mean, we don't all have the same resources, we may not have had the same level of support. But for example, for me, on that journey, I try to leave the past behind me as much as possible because it's too toxic for me. It makes me, it makes me feel a lot of emotions. And I don't want to always feel sorry for myself because I had this or that. But yes, I'm going to talk about it sometimes because it makes me the person I am today. And you know, now I understand why my mother was... why she acted that way, why my father acted the way he did. But when I say I understand... It's not... I understand because I understand their wounds, but they're repeating the same pattern they experienced. I'm the one who decided to break that pattern, to break that pattern of living in a healthier atmosphere.
Janis
I'm going to answer the question a bit differently.
Annie
Yeah...?
Janis
So, how can the concept of family be redefined? I think it's about breaking generational patterns and traumas. You know, not doing what your parents did. And now that you've seen what that leads to, you know, a toxic family, you can reach out to people or recreate a family, you know, with new foundations, new values, you know, really rebuilding something for the better.
Annie
For the better, Yeah. And I think it's really important to highlight that it's not the children's fault in the family situation. You know, I remember a meeting I had with my progenitors, And my “dad” said to me, "Annie, you're the pillar of the family. Thanks to you, we're a family." But I'm 16 at that point, I'm not supposed to be the pillar of the family. You know, the foundations should have been laid and upheld by my progenitors back then, not by me. I was like, I should have been the roof of the house,  who's going to climb the ladder and live on into the future, all that. But instead I’m being the pillar, I'm the one supporting everyone. Like... as a child, you just have to learn to live and then, when you turn 18, you have to fly the nest. That's what it should have been. But that's not what my experience has been. So there you go.
Janis
Yeah, you were under a lot of pressure.
Annie
But that's how it was.
Janis
Having to grow up too fast.
Annie
Well, that's why we, youth in care, often mature too quickly, and then we skip parts of our lives that we should have perhaps lived more fully when we were young.
Janis
Well said.  How can relationships with other people, whether friends or mentors, replace or complement what biological kinship cannot offer?
Annie
Well, I would say that... I always say that family is just, it's not a question. It's... like, my mother gave me life, she gave me some of her blood, but that's all. I don't mean to sound heartless, but she really just gave me life, that's all she did. But it's still a lot what she did, because otherwise I wouldn't be here today. But she didn't teach me anything about life. You know, I had to learn on my own, I had to learn from the people around me. And I think, you know, I was in foster care from age 2 to 10. And those people are no longer in my life today, but when I arrived at Luc and Pauline's house, who are now my parents and whom I consider my parents. You know, they worked hard, they made me the woman I am today. You know, they took the time to sit down with me. They took the time to listen to me. They took the time…
Janis
To get you to talk more?
Annie
To get me to talk, yes, that's something I didn't do before them, but to get me to talk, but also to take the time to be there for my successes. You know, when I first went to live with them, they made me repeat my fourth year. And you know, I was really angry. In fourth grade, we agree that it's still young, but I was like, I'm going to be the youngest in my class, the oldest in my class the following year. Then all summer long, Luc and Pauline bought a math workbook. I remember it was black and orange, I really remember the workbook, and every day I had to do math problems. And at first, I think it was like two or three problems a day, at first, I could spend the whole day at the table doing that, and I would cry and be like, don't make me do this, and it was like, whether you cry or you don't cry, like you don't want to do it, you're going to stay seated, you have to do it, you have to grow from this learning experience.
We were going camping as a family. We brought my workbook, I did this the math problems on the camping picnic table. I sat it in the woods, and I had to do my math while my brothers and her foster family went to play in the pool or at the park. I did my problem. And as the weeks went by during the summer, well, it took me five minutes. I did my problem and then I had the whole day to myself. Because something just clicked. So when I started fourth grade again in September, I was the best in my class. I was the one who knew everything. So, you know, at first I was really angry. Then, when it got easier, I was really... My God, I can do this. And you know, Luc and Pauline didn't just give me a roof over my head, a room, and clothes; they gave me support, they encouraged me. You know, at school, Luc and Pauline always demanded I get grades of 70% or higher. At first, I was like, "Oh, that's ridiculous." But when I got 70% or higher, I was proud of myself. Then when I got below that, well, yes, it's true that I was like, "Oh, really? I failed to do well, I didn't succeed," but at least I understood more. Out of 100% of the material, I understood at least 70% of what we had to learn, I was, and still am, performing better than I absolutely needed to, and that's something they passed on to me too. And now, as the mother of a 2-year-old boy... You know, my model of a family, is Luc and Pauline. It's, you know, dinners at the table. For me, I think it's important to spend time with the family. I think it's important to go out, do things like that, and pass on something healthy to Mathis because the foundation of our family is me and Martin, not Mathis. So that's something that's really, really important to me. And I also think that family, once again, isn't about blood ties, because the person I consider my sister, my best friend, is Julie. She knows me inside out.  And when I'm not doing well, when I'm doing well, she can tell. She's be able to tell me the truth, like a big sister would, on a daily basis. Today, Cassiel, who is my godson, is Julie's son, but that means we're a family. I mean, we're going to be together for life. And Julie is my son's godmother, so you know, we created this family, and yeah, Julie and I really have a certain chemistry that people don't understand. I mean, we see each other or call each other  in the morning, we chat about life, but we'll see each other or talk again at the end of the afternoon, and we'll be like, we see each other in the morning, we chat about everything, but we'll see each other at the end of the afternoon, and we'll have as much to say to each other as if we hadn’t seen each other in the morning, and people were like, come on, that's crazy. And yeah, but that's how it is, we always have something to say. And we call each other all the time, we're always on FaceTime, you know, we really have a certain connection and we have it. We told our husbands when we met, like when she met her boyfriend, and when I met my boyfriend: “I'm becoming your girlfriend, but I just want to tell you that my best friend isn't far away, like she'll be in the background, and she'll approve a lot of decisions”, but that means that today she's my family, she's someone close to me. And I want to say, Julie and her parents are like my parents too, like we're close, I know them, I go to family dinners. Julie, my family knows Julie and vice versa. So it's really, she's part of my family, and the whole family that lives with Luc and Pauline. Well, you know, Pauline's mother and father, you know, they became my grandparents, the aunts who are there. You know, even today, Ben, my aunt Linda, Ben is Luc's sister. Ben, you know, I see her regularly, we talk. So all these people are really important, and also. It's just that Luc and Pauline when... I keep saying Luc. And Pauline, but it's Luc and Pauline, when we go into their foster family environment, we're not... They didn't tell the other family members... "Annie has been placed here for such and such a reason." It's like: Annie is at home, she's here so we can help her, so we can support her. Then as they grew up, they learned my story. Then it was like, "Oh, I see..." So you know, my aunt Linda, I see her regularly, and she's only come to know my story for just a few years now.
Janis
Yeah, sometimes it takes longer to tell them your story, yeah. I don't have any specific examples, maybe a few friends. But I would say that what mentors or friends have given me is emotional and psychological support. You know, I really missed out on that when I was younger, and the fact of feeling seen, listened to, understood too, that's something that helped me a lot. I think that the friends and mentors we have in our lives are people we've chosen, so they're often people we have more affinity with, more chemistry with, as you were saying with Julie, and they're people who see us for who we really are. You know, they're people who, I feel, love us for who we are, who sometimes see our value more than even we see for ourselves. And I feel like it's like... It fills a certain void that my family wasn't able to fill when I was growing up. You know, I say a lot that they're not present, but it's true that not only are they not physically present today, but also when I was younger, psychologically, emotionally, they weren't present nor were they emotionally intelligent people. It's a void I've had in my life. So meeting people today who see me for who I am, who make me feel listened to and understood,  that really, really helps me heal, and to trust myself more and love myself more.
Annie
But I think it's also important to say that sometimes the people who are going to help us, who are going to accept us, are the ones who don't label us as "a ward of the state." And it feels good in society not to feel different from others, because people are often like, "Oh, they're a ward of that state, that's why they..."; But in the end, we have basic needs, and other needslike everyone else, in the sense that we just want to be loved and appreciated for our true worth. Well, I think you know today, you know, Luc and Pauline, I mean Julie and my in-laws, you know, they're people who accept me for who I am now, in the present day.  And even if I've been through this or that, it doesn't change anything in how they see me, in the person I am today. And again, it also informs the image we want to project, well, the image I want to project- that young people care can absolutely succeed in life. So, that's something I really want to promote and... But that's it, to change this image that young people in care won't succeed, and that we're really different. You know, we can build ourselves up, we can rebuild ourselves and move forward.
Janis
Yeah, I really feel like society has a negative perception of young people who are in care or who leave care. You know, they often think we're bums or that we'll end up homeless or that we have no ambition, that we'll be on welfare our whole lives. You know, it's often really negative stuff. But talking about it like we are today, you know, talking about our dreams, saying where we are in life, I think small actions like that can change society's perception. Then at one point, someone asked me, are there people who feel sorry for you or who have felt sorry for you because you were a ward of the state? And I was like, yeah, in my own family some people think that way, you know, because whether you like it or not, on my father's side, my father is the black sheep. You know, he's the only one in the family whose children were placed into care. All his other brothers and sisters have done well in life. They have good jobs, they're highly educated, they're mentally healthy, and their children are doing well. So my grandmother, you know, she feels sorry for us when she sees that. She's like, “oh my God, my only son has failed.” Plus, he's her only son. Every time she sees me, my grandmother is like: "I'm so proud of you, it wasn't easy, was it? How did you get through all that?" Yes, I find that nice because she has compassion. But at the same time, I'm like, I don't want to be seen like that my whole life. Yes, I didn't have it easy, yes my father had the life he had, but at some point, you also have to look at who I am today and what I've accomplished. You can't just look at what I didn't have.
Annie
But you see, I find that... You know, on the one hand, your grandmother reacts like that, I find that... It's good, but at the same time, on my side, no one cared where I was when I was taken into care. Since I don't have any family who came to me and said, "Oh, you could come stay with me”. Because usually, before placement into other care arrangement, they usually try and place you with a family member, such as an aunt, a grandmother, a grandparent. But that never happened for me. No one decided to take me under their wing to help me. It's only at 16-17 years old that family members revealed: “Ah, we knew you existed, but…” Well, basically “we knew you existed” but nothing else. OK, so you waited 16 years of my life to tell me you were alive, that you were my sister, that you were my brother. And meanwhile, I was just trying to survive in this crazy world, trying to understand what I had been and was being put through... I thought I only had a mother and a father. So you know, the whole cousin thing, grandparents, I didn't really know what that was like when I was young. It was only really when I arrived at Luc and Pauline's house that I understood that family wasn't just a mother and a father. But that's just it. There's no one who decided to help me. You know, today, well, I decided to cut ties with members of my bio family because it's... you know, people telling me that I think I'm better than others because I went to school and worked to get a good job. I don’t need that.  I'm like, well, I helped myself and that’s what got me to where I am today. That's what I often say to people, well, to young people who are like, but I don't have this, that, that... well, I didn't have all that either,  handed to me on a silver platter. I worked, and above all, I took the help that came my way, you know? Someone reached out to me, and I accepted it. And that's how I think the people who make up your family are, a little bit like that, they want to help you, they're there for you, and they want to see you grow and move forward in life.
Janis
What role does family or chosen family play in your future plans?
Annie
Well, I became a mother. I became Mathis's mom in 2022. It was a dream that, despite everything I had been through, I cherished from the bottom of my heart. Then, when I became a mother, I was told that trauma from my past might re-emerge from the fact of becoming a parent, that I would relive things that had affected me deeply. Matisse, is now 2 years old, and at the age of 2, that's when I was put into care, it was my first placement. So right now, I would say that it's a bit of a challenging period, as I sometimes doubt my role as a mother and wonder if Matisse will have a good life. You know, those are the questions I ask myself, but at the same time, I know that Mathis is in good hands. I mean, I'm a great mom. I'm really there for my son, but at the same time, I look at Mathis, and I  think, well, at that age, my body was covered in bruises. And you know, I had things that were difficult, but again, I look at Matisse and the only thing I want to do is give him big hugs and kisses, play with him, and all that. So sometimes I don't understand. Once again, little Annie doesn't understand, why my progenitors put me through all of that.  When I was in my twenties, I'd give talks in schools, and at the end ofone talk, a lady came up to me. She told me she was really touched by my story and that she would write to me on Facebook. She wrote to me on Facebook, and we chatted and exchanged messages. It was really strange, you know, not strange in a bad way, but  she said, know how it's really strange, like there are so many similarities in our families. So we're talking and she says, "Do you know so-and-so?" And I'm like, you know, I don't really know my biological family, so I have no idea. We keep talking and talking. Well this woman has a name, her name is Nancy. So turns out Nancy is my cousin, but my biological cousin. And her father is my mother's brother. It's like life really do work out so well, so Nancy and I decided to stay in touch, and we're still in touch today, and I met her father, who is my mother's brother, and I was able to find answers about why my mother was like that, and why she did certain things. And you know, Nancy's dad told me that he had cut ties with my mother because she was taking advantage of the system and having children for the money. Because every time they took a child away from her, it was like, no big deal, I'll just have another one. So I knew I was made for financial benefits. I'm at peace with that decision today, but also, I know I was create and born for financial gain, and that's why she gave me life. And you knos, as the young girl I used to be, that's the question I often asked myself. Why am I here, why was I born, why am I part of this world? Why give me life and then leave me to my own devices? I didn't ask for any of this, and yet I was made to live through it all. And the only reason I can understand is that you just wanted to have children for money, but now I have trauma and I have wounds, I have scars. It's a crime. You could have just not given me life. And you know find another way to make money, like getting a job.
Janis
You're really strong to see look at it like that. If it were me, I’d be…
Annie
…But also like that, during an activity that you and I did together, there was a man who shared how much he didn't understand how we could come to call our mother and father “progenitor”, and that he was frustrated, and then he looked me straight in the eye and said, "How would you react if your son called you a procreator? " And you know, I'm still reeling from it today. I feel like if Mathis ever called me that, I will have failed in my role as a mother, even though I give 110% every day with Mathis to live up to being a good mom, that one day he would call me that because...Well, I really don’t think it will turn out that way… Like, I decided to have a child, and I'm going to take care of him until I can't take care of him anymore, which is to say until I'm in my grave. I want Mathis to have... I want Mathis to have a family life, the family life that I would have liked to have had from the age of 2 onward. And you know, they often say that the emotional bond starts when you're a baby, so I'm that bond. At age 2, the only bond we need, is mainly the closeness of our parents, the warmth, the love I never had. So now, you know, it makes me kind of emotionally dependent, and I always need to be reassured. I need to, but you know, today I'm able to work on that.
Janis
Yeah, it's about learning to live with it, and that takes time—it's normal.
Annie
Yes. And I don't want to recreate the same pattern. You know, Mathis, I don't want him to experience the same "shit " that I did. And, like, yes, right now, it's hard in some ways, in the sense that I see him growing up. And I'm like, Oh my God, I went through things like that! It's hard for me because I'm reliving things from my past, but I know Mathis won't go through that. And that's okay, it's 100% okay!
Janis
Yeah!
Annie
It's 100% fine, but... That's it. And you know, like Mathis, he's a little baby, well he's a little... He's a spoiled little boy. He's really spoiled. Then I. It's something that Martin and I are like, he'll know that he's spoiled, and that he's really lucky to have a family that loves him, buys him things, and is there for him. And that's something that in life, you always have to be grateful to those around you. And I'm super grateful that my mother-in-law, and Aunt Sylvie, and my parents  look after Mathis when we need them to, and that they are there to help us and make us meals because sometimes during the week we can't manage, because Mathis is sick, because I'm tired, or whatnot. So that's what family is all about, supporting each other when times are tough, but also being there when things are good and everything is going well. So that's it.
Janis
I have a difficult question, you don't have to answer...
Annie
Go ahead, yeah….
Janis
If child protective services came back into your life to take Mathis away, how would you feel?
Annie
Oh wow, that would be like…. I would have failed somewhere, for sure. But I would really... I can't even imagine Mathis being taken away from me. I don't understand how my parents agreed to have their own children taken away from them. I mean, I go away for a weekend to a cabin with my best friend or with friends, and you know, my God, I miss my son. If he were taken away from me permanently, every day? I would have really failed as a mother. No! I can't even imagine Mathis being taken away from me. It's something that, that... No, I... No, I can't answer you any other way. It really makes me feel so... It gets to me, it's... You can't take Mathis away from me. And you know, when you're a mom, you wonder a little bit about what you were like before you were a mom. Like, what did I do before I had a child? It's like I don't know anymore. You know, there are a lot of people who, well, a lot... our family members like to look after Mathis, and they enjoy having him for a few days, and it's good for me because I can rest, but sometimes I feel like, Ah, I have a day off, what in the world will I do? But it's also about taking the time to rediscover myself as a woman and as a person, because before I was a mom, I was someone. Well, I am someone, I am a woman, I am a friend, I am a partner, I am... am a friend. So, that's also about finding a certain balance in who I am as a person.
Janis
And from what I understand, how you see the future with Mathis and with your family is that you want to create something you would have liked to have had as a child, is that right?
Annie
Yes. I want to, you know, I want to raise Mathis as best I can, and you know my role models are definitely Luc and Pauline in terms of what they taught me, whether it's in...Whether it's succeeding in school or, you know, just giving an example, but you know, let's say Luc, who's really good with his hands, he works in construction and has his own business. But you know, Luc, before he starts a project, he always makes a plan, always a plan on paper, you make a draft. But today, I'm like that, I'll make a draft and then I'll execute my plan. Because I already have a foundation, so these are things I want to focus on with Mathis, but I also want Matisse to have happy childhood memories, filled with love. And you know what? I want that. Once again, I say that Mathis is really spoiled because I mean, my life isn't just about getting gifts, but it's about those precious moments with family that I would have liked to have had. It's family dinners. And Christmas isn't just about gifts, and it's not just Santa Claus saying, "Oh, I'm bringing you lots of gifts." But you know, it's family dinners, it's games during the evening. It's about sharing, taking the time to connect with the people you love, and that's really important.
Janis
For me? For me, I would say that since things are a little unclear right now, my relationship with my family is about accepting them the way they are today and not expecting too much. Not to hope that overnight they'll be more present or that it will be more reciprocal. Just to accept the situation as it is and, for my part, focus on the people who are there for me, my friends. Maybe eventually I'll be in a relationship, and then I'll be able to start my own family, but really focus on the people who show me they love me and with whom I can really invest my time in the long term.
Annie
That's beautiful. What advice would you give to young people who are perhaps searching for themselves? Who are trying to find their place in society, who are trying to build themselves up, build a world around them?
Janis
I would say that it's really about taking the time to get to know yourself. I think that's what really helps lay the foundation. Then you can build your own path. What about you?
Annie
Well, I say, once again, it's about trusting in life. I think that life is still good despite the obstacles. And I say that in life, nothing happens for no reason. It's something I say every day, and I still believe it. If your parents are no longer your parents, there's something else in store for you. If you've decided that they're no longer your parents, there's something else that's going to happen. Someone will come along at the right time and be there for you. Because, you know, we all end up alone, we're all going to die alone, but in our lives today, we have the right to be surrounded by people and to receive all the love we need.
 
 

Parenting after leaving care/ La parentalité après la transition a la vie adulte

In this episode Amanda and Marie share their insights as professionals, and as parents on parenting after leaving care. This episode is in English. 
 
Dans cet épisode, Marie et Amanda nous partagent leurs perspectives en tant que professionels et en tant que parents anciennement jeunes placés sur la parentalité après la transition à l'âge adulte. L'épisode est en Anglais. La traduction du verbatim de l'épisode est disponible ci-dessous.
 
 
Transcription
 
AmandaBonjour à tous,  nous sommes ici pour notre deuxième podcast et, aujourd'hui, nous allons parler un peu de l'expérience de devenir parent après avoir été placé en famille d'accueil à l’enfance. Je voudrais donc vous présenter Marie Christian, qui est ici avec nous et qui apporte ses connaissances grâce à son rôle au sein de Voices, Manitoba. Voulais-tu te présenter ?
 
Marie
Je m'appelle Marie. Je suis l'ancienne directrice de Voices, le réseau des anciens jeunes placés du Manitoba, où j'ai acquis la plus grande partie de mon expérience professionnelle concernant les besoins et les expériences des parents ayant été pris en charge par les services sociaux à l’enfance. Bien sûr, j'ai ma propre expérience personnelle, ayant moi-même été prise en charge par les services sociaux puis étant devenue mère peu après, mais j'ai beaucoup appris des jeunes du réseau et je suis heureuse de partager avec vous une partie de cet apprentissage aujourd'hui.
 
Amanda
Je m'appelle Amanda et je suis une personne ayant été placée en famille d'accueil qui est également devenue mère. Je suis donc devenue mère à 25 ans. Ma fille a maintenant 15 ans. Vous pouvez donc deviner mon âge. Mais j'ai également été clinicienne. J'ai donc travaillé avec des jeunes sortant du système pendant environ huit ans et j'ai contribué à la création du réseau d’anciens jeunes placés au Québec, appelé CAREjeunesse. Dans le cadre de ces deux fonctions, j'ai beaucoup interagi avec des parents ayant été placés lors de leur enfance. Je suis aujourd'hui chercheuse et une partie de mes recherches portent également sur la parentalité le placement. Je vais donc vous parler un peu de tout cela.
Marie Puisque tu as mentionné le moment où vous êtes devenu parent, je suis moi aussi devenue parent. C’est drôle, si vous essayez de faire le calcul pour deviner mon âge, vous vous tromperez, mais ce n'est pas grave. Je suis donc devenue mère à 19 ans et mes enfants ont aujourd'hui 30 et 25 ans, mais vous ne pouvez pas calculer mon âge, et nous expliquerons pourquoi un peu plus tard dans l'épisode.
 
Amanda
OOOH J'adore !  Hum, d'accord, donc la première chose que nous voulons dire, alors que nous entamons cette conversation, c'est que le rôle de parent est difficile pour tout le monde. (Marie : Mhmm !)  Et c'est quelque chose qu'il est vraiment important de reconnaître, car les personnes qui n'ont pas été placés sont confrontées à des difficultés dans leur rôle parental, et en tant qu’ancien jeune placé vous pouvez rencontrer des difficultés dans votre rôle de parent sans que cela ait un rapport avec votre placement en protection de la jeunesse.
 
Marie
Tout simplement parce que les enfants ne viennent pas avec un mode d'emploi, et que chaque enfant est différent.
AmandaExactement. Chaque parent est différent et parfois, les différents âges sont difficiles pour différentes personnes. Oui. Hum, et donc, nous allons parler de la parentalité en relation avec le fait d'avoir été placé en enfance, car il y a certains défis qui viennent du fait de ne pas avoir été élevé par sa famille d'origine, peut-être de ne pas avoir eu de soutien intergénérationnel, par exemple. Nous allons donc approfondir un peu ce sujet aujourd'hui. Hum, alors tout d'abord Marie, dis-moi, hum, à quel moment es-tu devenue parent ?
 
Marie
La raison pour laquelle il serait difficile de calculer mon âge actuel par rapport à celui de mes garçons est que je suis devenue mère par choix. À l'âge de 19 ans, les enfants de ma sœur ont été placés en famille d'accueil et le système m'a donné l'ultimatum suivant : soit je devenais leur tutrice légale, soit ils resteraient en famille d'accueil. À l'époque, leur première expérience, c'était à l'époque où les enfants étaient placés dans des hôtels. Rien qu'en les entendant raconter cela, je me suis dit NON. Et d'après l'expérience de mes propres frères et sœurs, qui ont tous été séparés et placés dans différents foyers d'accueil, je ne voulais pas que cela arrive à ces garçons. J'ai donc choisi de devenir leur tutrice. Ils étaient très jeunes lorsqu'ils ont emménagé chez moi. Et euh, nous avons dû trouver une solution ensemble. Alors pourquoi suis-je devenu parent ? Parce que je ne voulais pas qu'ils vivent la séparation de leurs fratrie. Euh, comme mes frères et sœurs et moi l'avons vécu quand nous étions plus jeunes.
 
Amanda
C'était un choix très courageux et je suis vraiment heureuse que tu as pu être là pour eux.
 
Marie
 Je pense que c'est un choix très « 19 ans ». Je me souviens que certains adultes de mon entourage à l'époque me disaient : « Non, tu es juste au début de ta vie, tu viens de commencer l'université, le monde t'appartient, bla bla bla... ». Mais il y a quelque chose de merveilleusement courageux chez les jeunes de cet âge, ce sens de justice sociale qui leur fait dire « Non, je refuse que ç se passe comme ça! »... Est-ce que j'aurais eu le même courage et la même audace aujourd'hui ? J'espère que oui. Ce n'était pas quelque chose que je voulais pour eux et bien sûr, mis à part le fait que je ne voulais pas les séparer, je les aime. Ce sont mes neveux. Ce sont mes meilleurs amis de toute façon, mais en plus de cela, je veux simplement plus pour eux qu'une expérience en foyer.
 
AmandaHmm. Eh bien, mon parcours vers la parentalité a été un peu différent. Euh, je savais dès mon adolescence que j'allais avoir des problèmes de fertilité, euh, et je suis tombée enceinte par hasard à 25 ans. Un peu plus jeune que je ne l'aurais souhaité si j'avais pu le planifier. Mais je savais qu'il y avait une chance que si je ne menais pas cette grossesse à terme, je n'aurais jamais d'enfants. C'était donc un choix. Dès que j'ai appris que j'étais enceinte, j'étais ravie et je voulais avoir mon bébé, mais c'était plus tôt que si j'avais eu la possibilité de m'établir dans ma carrière et financièrement. J'aurais préféré attendre quelques années. Il y a eu des difficultés financières et une adaptation brutale à la parentalité, car j'étais en train de faire ma maîtrise lorsque je suis tombée enceinte. J'ai quand même terminé mes études, ce dont je suis très fière. Mais cela a également été un défi. Oui, c'était un peu plus tôt que je ne l'aurais souhaité.
Marie
C'est très bien quand même. Je suis fière que tu aies réussi à terminer ta maîtrise ! Avec un nouveau-né. Si quelqu'un regardait mon dossier scolaire à cette époque, oh non. Je n'ai pas trouvé le bon équilibre entre le travail, les études et l'éducation des enfants. Il fallait donc faire un choix. C'est devenu... les études ont dû attendre et je me suis concentrée sur la recherche d'un emploi et l'éducation des garçons. Je suis donc heureuse que tu aies réussi à terminer tes études.
 
Amanda
Oui, c'était un défi, mais le timing était parfait, car j'ai découvert que j'étais enceinte pendant que je rédigeais ma thèse. C'était une maîtrise avec thèse, et j'ai donc soumis ma thèse avant d'accoucher, mais j'ai dû faire des modifications,  juste après sa naissance. Je me souviens que ces modifications ont été très difficiles, car j'ai eu un accouchement très difficile. Mais c'était quelque chose qui... Oui. Oui. Je suis contente d'avoir réussi. Oui. Peux-tu nous dire où tu en es dans ton parcours parental ?
Marie
 Eh bien, je suis maintenant à l'étape du nid vide, donc l'une des choses que nous défendons vraiment dans le réseau d’anciens jeunes placés, c'est cette politique de la porte ouverte. Ce n'est pas parce qu’un jeune a atteint la majorité qu’il ne devrait plus  revenir au milieu d’acceuil ou de bénéficier de soutient, et mes garçons ont... Ils ont exercé ce droit à plusieurs reprises pendant leur transition vers l'âge adulte, ce qui ne me dérange pas du tout. Donc, mon plus jeune fils, il a déménagé. Oui, je crois qu'il avait 21 ans. Il est tombé amoureux et elle vit à l'autre bout du monde. Il est donc parti vivre avec elle et n'est revenu qu'une seule fois, pour travailler un peu plus avant de repartir s'installer définitivement là où elle vit. Mais mon fils aîné a fait plusieurs allers-retours. Et je pense que cette fois, c'est définitif. Je pense, je pense que cette fois-ci, ça va durer. Je pense donc que je suis dans la phase du nid vide.
Amanda
Mais c'est formidable d'avoir pu être là pour tes neveux et leur apporter le soutien dont tu n'as pas bénéficié à cet âge charnière, n'est-ce pas ?
Marie
Tout à fait. Et tu sais quoi ? Chaque fois que je rentre à la maison et que mes épices ont disparu, qu'il n'y a plus d'huile d'olive parce qu'il a pris la bouteille supplémentaire dans mon placard, qu'il n'y a plus de papier toilette parce qu'il a pris tout le paquet, sachant que sa tante pouvait en racheter, ça ne me dérange pas, en fait je préfère ça.
Amanda
Oui, j'adore ça. Il se sent suffisamment en sécurité pour rentrer à la maison. Oui, oui, oui, Tu es son point d’accroche C'est incroyable.
 
Marie
Et toi, où en es-tu ?
Amanda
Euh, ma fille a maintenant 15 ans. Elle entre en quatrième année du secondaire ici au Québec. Il lui reste donc deux ans d'études secondaires, puis elle ira au CEGEP. (Marie : oh, wow !) Oui... Et c'est fou de voir ce processus, n'est-ce pas ? Parce qu'elle va commencer à passer son permis de conduire dans un an et, euh, oui. Et je n'avais personne pour m'apprendre à conduire moi, n'est-ce pas ? Et donc, c'est comme si je découvrais ce que c'est que d'être parent d'une adolescente qui fait des erreurs et qui n'est pas jugée pour cela, et qui a toujours un filet de sécurité, donc elle n'a pas peur de me dire quand elle fait des erreurs. Et oui. C'est une expérience différente. Et euh, quelle étape de la parentalité as-tu le plus appréciée ?
Marie
Eh bien, je pense. Hum, l'étape que j'ai le plus appréciée est différente pour les deux garçons. Je pense... Oh mon Doux. Tu sais quel était mon rêve d'enfant ? Grandir, me marier, voyager à travers le monde avec mon mari, puis revenir et avoir six enfants. Et puis, que tous mes enfants invitent tous leurs amis à la maison. Nous aurions donc une immense table dans la salle à manger. J'ai toujours adoré les enfants. Je ne peux donc pas choisir une étape préférée. J'ai des souvenirs préférés de presque toutes les étapes, et je trouve que mes garçons étaient tellement mignons. Mais si je devais en choisir une, je pense que pour mon plus jeune fils, mon étape préférée avec lui était celle de ses 12 à 17 ans, qui peut être très tendue, car c'est l'âge où ils essaient d'affirmer leur propre pouvoir et de trouver leur propre identité, mais c'était tellement merveilleux de le regarder. Il est tellement extraverti. Il va vers les gens, leur parle, les écoute et a de bonnes conversations sur des sujets dont je ne soupçonnais même pas l'existence. Le voir être complètement lui-même était toujours une joie. Et pour mon fils aîné, je pense que c'est maintenant qu'il est dans cette phase, à 30 ans, où il est un adulte émergent ou un adulte à part entière, selon à qui vous parlez. Hum, mais le voir gagner en confiance, devenir l'homme de sa maison, essayer de joindre les deux bouts et mieux communiquer avec sa compagne... Hum, j'adore le voir heureux. (Amanda : Oui!). Toi Amanda, as-tu une étape préférée ?
Amanda
Je pense que j'en ai deux. J'ai vraiment adoré, euh, ma fille quand elle était bébé, euh, je me souviens que je la portais dans un porte-bébé jusqu'à ce qu'elle ait environ quatre ans, parce qu'elle était très câline. Et donc, euh, au début, c'était tout le temps. Mais ensuite, jusqu'à l'âge de quatre ans, je la mettais encore parfois dedans et je me souviens qu'elle s'endormait sur moi. Et je la portais partout avec moi, je ne sais pas, j'ai vraiment apprécié sa petite enfance, c'est sûr. Et je pense que j'apprécie aussi beaucoup cette période de développement dans laquelle elle se trouve actuellement. Elle pense savoir ce qu'elle veut faire plus tard et, pour cette raison, elle prend l'école très au sérieux. L'année dernière, elle était souvent en retard à l'école, mais depuis qu'elle s'est en quelque sorte décidée sur son orientation professionnelle, nous l'avons emmenée passer une journée à l'université pour voir si c'c'est vraiment ce qu'elle veut faire. Nous sommes allés à une journée portes ouvertes au CEGEP et elle sait maintenant quel programme elle veut suivre. Elle prend ses cours très au sérieux, elle n'a pas été en retard une seule fois depuis le début de l'année scolaire, ce qui est radicalement différent de l'année dernière. Et moi, je... et elle me parle maintenant de ses intérêts professionnels et des activités qu'elle veut faire cet été, et j'apprécie vraiment de la voir s'épanouir, et ses intérêts professionnels sont totalement différents de ce que je fais. Mais c'est super intéressant de la voir devenir qui elle est.
Marie
Vous vous souvenez quelle a été la phase la plus difficile pour toi ?
Amanda
 Je pense que c'est une très bonne question. C'est une question difficile. Je dirais que la période entre 3 et 5 ans avec ma fille a été très difficile pour moi. Nous avons perdu ma belle-mère quand Chloé avait deux ans, et après cela, nous n'avons plus eu aucun soutien intergénérationnel. Et cela a probablement contribué à rendre les choses difficiles. Mais l'autre problème auquel j'ai été confrontée était mon propre passé et les traumas associés. Et c'était quelque chose dont je n'avais absolument pas conscience entre les trois et cinq ans de ma fille. C'était enfoui si profondément dans mon subconscient que je ne savais pas que c'était quelque chose qui me posait problème, mais en fait, je n'ai jamais vraiment aimé les enfants entre trois et sept ans. Et je le disais aux gens. Quand on me demandait : « Oh, tu sais, quelle tranche d'âge aimes-tu vraiment ? » Et avant d'avoir des enfants, je répondais : « Je n'aime pas vraiment les enfants entre trois et sept ans. Et c'est simplement parce qu'ils ne sont pas très cohérents, mais ils parlent tout le temps et ils sont juste, tu sais, un peu ennuyeux à côtoyer » Et, euh, à un certain moment, je discutais avec un thérapeute et Chloé avait cinq ans et j'ai dit, euh,  j'ai en quelque sorte verbalisé certaines des difficultés que je rencontrais, puis il m'a dit : « C'est intéressant, que s'est-il passé pour vous entre trois et sept ans ? » C'est à cette période que j'ai vécu certains des traumatismes les plus importants dans ma famille d'origine. Et je pense que le simple fait de la voir à trois, quatre et cinq ans m'a rappelé quand j'avais trois, quatre et cinq ans. Et donc j'évitais en quelque sorte, dans la mesure du possible, je ne pouvais pas jouer avec elle. Je me retrouvais dans une situation où chaque fois qu'elle voulait jouer avec moi... Euh, le jeu était très violent dans ma famille d'origine. J'avais vraiment du mal à gérer ça, et la deuxième partie du problème, c'est que je n'en avais pas conscience. Je sentais juste une sorte de panique m'envahir, mais je ne savais pas quoi faire. C'était juste son âge, ça n'avait rien à voir avec elle ou moi en tant que parent. C'était comme si j'étais inconsciente, et une fois qu'un thérapeute m'a aidée à le voir, j'ai pu corriger le tir et les choses se sont améliorées. Et quand je ressentais cette panique, je savais d'où elle venait, et je n'avais plus besoin de m'enfuir de la pièce ou d'arrêter ce que nous étions en train de faire. Et donc ça s'est amélioré. Et puis, une fois qu'elle a eu 8 ans, je n'ai plus eu cette expérience. Je pense que c'est simplement parce que j'ai vécu un traumatisme très grave, sans aucun moyen de protection, entre trois et sept ans. Donc, une fois qu'elle a eu huit ans, je n'ai plus eu les mêmes difficultés, je pouvais me souvenir des jeux qui étaient amusants. Et je pouvais interagir avec elle d'une manière différente en tant que parent. Donc, oui, je dirais que la période de trois à cinq ans a été la pire, car il n'y avait aucun soutien intergénérationnel. J'avais constamment des crises de panique et je ne savais pas pourquoi. Et euh, la période de cinq à sept ans a encore été difficile, mais au moins j'en avais conscience, donc je pouvais essayer d'y remédier. (Marie : ouais). Euh, c'était quelque chose auquel personne ne m'avait préparée et auquel je ne m'attendais vraiment pas.
 
Marie
Oui. (Amanda : oui.) Je pense que j'ai vécu quelque chose de similaire. Ce n'était pas la période la plus difficile pour moi, mais pour chaque enfant, quand ils atteignent l'âge de 10 ans, j'ai ce sentiment d'appréhension, comme « Oh mon Dieu, protège-les cette année ». Parce que c'est l'année où ma mère est décédée. Donc, j'ai juste... et tout un tas d'autres choses, mais c'était en quelque sorte la cerise sur le gâteau, ou plutôt l'anti-cerise sur l'anti-gâteau. Donc, chaque fois que je rencontre un enfant qui vient d'avoir 10 ans, je me dis : « Oh, ça va être une année difficile. Mais pour ce qui est d'élever mes garçons, je dirais que la période la plus difficile de notre vie familiale a été le tout début, parce que je ne savais pas ce que je faisais et que je n'avais pas de parents biologiques directs à prendre comme modèles pour l'éducation des enfants. Mais j'ai surmonté cette difficulté en m'inspirant de The Cosby Show. Je me suis dit : « OK, comment Claire et le Dr Huxtable gèrent-ils l'éducation de leurs enfants ? Cela m'a aidée à développer ma propre approche pour élever mes enfants. Je veux être ferme. Je veux être claire et directe avec eux, mais je veux aussi faire preuve d'humour et d'amour. Cela m'a aidée à prendre certaines de mes premières décisions en tant que mère. Mais en termes de développement personnel, Je pense que pour mon plus jeune, ça a été difficile, même si j'ai particulièrement aimé le voir grandir entre 12 et 17 ans. Ça a aussi été un défi parce qu'entre 15 et 17 ans, il est devenu très secret et a fait des choix pas très judicieux à l'école. Quand il était en dernière année du secondaire, il a décidé qu'il ne voulait pas obtenir son diplôme, alors il a abandonné tous ses cours et est revenu l'année suivante. Pas de problème. Je ne me souviens pas comment je l'ai découvert. Je pense que je l'ai découvert par hasard et j'ai appelé l'école. Je leur ai demandé : « Qu'est-ce que vous faites ? Non, vous ne le laissez pas abandonner tous ses cours pour qu'il puisse revenir l'année suivante. Non. Donc, vous savez, j'ai essayé de trouver un équilibre entre son besoin de développer son autonomie et... Non, je ne te laisserai pas suivre cette voie. Non, tout simplement non, il n'y a pas à discuter. Euh, et pour mon fils aîné, il a eu des problèmes de dépendance à la fin de son adolescence, au début de la vingtaine, et j'ai passé des nuits entières à le chercher en voiture. Euh, c'était au début, enfin, je suppose que ce n'était pas tout à l'aube de Facebook, alors j'envoyais des messages à ces contacts et j'essayais de trouver des amis qui, je le savais, étaient passés le voir pour le localiser. Ce n'était pas drôle. Et je suis tellement reconnaissante que cette phase de sa vie soit terminée maintenant, heureusement. Voilà donc les étapes difficiles que notre famille a traversées.
 
Amanda
Cela a dû être très difficile. Je suis également heureuse d'apprendre qu'il a dépassé cette phase. Oui, ça dû petre une période très difficile. (Marie : Oui !) C'est très courant chez les adolescents d'aujourd'hui. Oui. Et chez les jeunes adultes.
Marie
 Je pense que ce qui a vraiment aidé, c'est que... Eh bien, nous n'avions pas beaucoup d'adultes plus âgés en bonne santé qui auraient pu lui servir de modèle. Il s'est retrouvé devant un juge plusieurs fois, je crois. La dernière fois qu'il s'est retrouvé devant ce juge, celui-ci lui a dit : « Écoute, tu n'es pas fait pour ce style de vie, arrête ça. Je ne veux plus te revoir ici », et cette approche directe et humoristique lui est restée, et il n'y est tout simplement pas retourné.
 
Amanda
Et en quoi pense-tu que les choses ont été différentes pour vos garçons que toi à leur âge ?
 
Marie
Oui. Eh bien, je pense que j'ai eu beaucoup de chance, car même si j'ai été placée à plusieurs reprises avant l'âge de 10 ans, lorsque ma mère est décédée à l'âge de 10 ans, j'ai été envoyée vivre chez mon grand-père, donc j'ai été prise en charge par un membre de ma famille. J'ai donc bénéficié d'une certaine stabilité. C'était un vieil homme, tu vois. Il n'était donc pas très attentif ni très engageant, mais au moins, j'avais la stabilité d'un endroit que je pouvais appeler mon foyer. Et je sais que beaucoup de jeunes avec lesquels je travaillé dans le cadre du réseau de VOICES n'ont même paseu cette stabilité. Donc, si vous faites une erreur, comme abandonner l'école ou devenir toxicomane, cela se termine généralement par un changement de placement. Vous allez dans un nouveau placement, vous allez dans un foyer collectif, vous allez dans un établissement de soins de niveau cinq, vous allez en détention pour mineurs. Euh, pour mes garçons. Je suis très reconnaissante qu'ils aient pu échouer pour mieux rebondir. Ils ont pu faire ces erreurs tout en sachant qu'ils avaient un foyer, qu'ils étaient aimés, qu'on s'occupait d'eux et qu'on allait trouver une solution, donc, oui.
 
Amanda
Et c'est bien de pouvoir en quelque sorte réécrire certaines de ces erreurs historiques, je pense.
MarieOui. Oui, et pour s'assurer qu'ils savent qu'ils ont le choix, des options.
 
Amanda
Tu as déjà abordé ce sujet un, mais as-tu pu  bénéficié d'un soutien intergénérationnel qui t’as aidée à un moment donné dans ton parcours parental ?
 
Marie
 Oui, eh bien, je pense que, euh, en ce qui concerne ma famille biologique, je n'avais pas ma mère et mon père pour m'apporter ce soutien, et bien sûr, mon grand-père était là pendant nos premières années. Il est décédé peu après. Mais il a fait ce qu'il a pu. Il a notamment plaidé pour que le système ne me désigne pas comme tutrice légale. Il disait : « Ne peut-elle pas simplement être la mère d'accueil ? » Cela n'a pas fonctionné, mais il a fait de son mieux. Mais après son décès, je pense que notre soutien intergénérationnel a vraiment été le village que j'ai pu construire autour des garçons. Nous appartenions à notre communauté paroissiale. J'ai donc demandé à certains hommes s'ils pouvaient passer du temps avec mes garçons. Est-ce qu'ils pourraient les emmener pêcher ? Est-ce qu'ils pourraient faire toutes les choses que font les hommes ? Préparer des hot-dogs, je ne sais pas, faire des grillades, quelque chose comme ça. Hum, certains de mes pairs, certains des garçons du groupe de jeunes avec moi, venaient jouer aux Lego avec les garçons et leur apprenaient... Mon ami Robbie leur a appris à faire des ricochets sur la rivière. Nous n'avions donc pas de soutien intergénérationnel lié à la biologie, ni de privilège familial. Mais nous avons réussi à développer une communauté, un village autour de nous, composé de personnes d'âges, de sexes et de situations différents, qui pouvaient les aider à découvrir qui ils étaient. Aviez-vous un soutien intergénérationnel ?
 
Amanda
 Oui, jusqu'à ce que Chloé ait deux ans, grâce à ma belle-mère, qui était vraiment la personne la plus proche d'une mère que j'ai jamais eue. Elle a été là pendant cinq ans, je crois, et c'était la personne la plus adorable qui soit, Francine. Euh, et après son décès, euh, mon conjoint avait une grand-mère, qui était très âgée et qui est maintenant décédée, mais elle a été présente pendant un peu plus longtemps dans l'enfance de Chloé. Je dirais jusqu'à ce que Chloé ait environ six ans. Elle venait parfois faire du baby-sitting, mais c'était plutôt court, disons pour deux heures, parce que je devais aller quelque part où c'était vraiment important, et la moitié du temps, elle s'endormait pendant qu'elle gardait Chloé. Ce n'était donc pas, euh, ce n'était pas forcément la situation idéale. Mais après cet âge, elle a dû déménager dans une maison de retraite. Et donc, après ça, nous n'avons plus eu aucun soutien intergénérationnel. Oui. Ce qui est intéressant, c'est que quand j'ai grandi, j'avais une très grande famille élargie composée de différentes... Il y a des défis différents avec les deux côtés de la famille de mes parents. Mais j'avais des gens. Alors que j'ai l'impression que dans la vie de ma fille, nous n'avons pas autant de gens et je me demande toujours, vous savez, quelle est la meilleure chose à avoir ? Par exemple, est-ce mieux d'avoir une famille dysfonctionnelle avec laquelle on passe du temps, ou est-ce mieux d'avoir une famille plus petite, qui est peut-être moins dysfonctionnelle ? Oui, et je ne connais toujours pas la réponse à cette question. C'est le genre de chose que l'on se demande.
Marie
Eh bien, c'est délicat, car en vieillissant, nous avons pu tisser des liens plus étroits avec mes oncles et tantes, et comme tous les dysfonctionnements, c'est totalement intergénérationnel. Ma mère et ses frères et sœurs ont eu leurs problèmes. Mes frères et sœurs et moi avons eu les nôtres, et maintenant mes oncles et tantes ont les leurs. C'est difficile de se réunir. C'est donc un groupe de personnes folles, en colère et dramatiques. Euh, et pendant toutes les années où les garçons étaient jeunes, s'il y avait un dîner de fête ou quelque chose comme ça, je leur disais : « On va y aller, vous allez rencontrer votre famille. Je veux que vous sachiez d'où nous venons. » Donc oui, je me suis vraiment demandé s'il valait mieux pour eux de connaître leur famille et de les voir au moins deux ou trois fois par an, ou s'il valait mieux s'isoler et créer notre propre village. Et je pense que j'ai décidé de faire les deux. J'avais besoin d'un village sain. Qui était tout le temps autour des garçons. À différents niveaux, car tout le monde n'est pas là tout le temps. Mais je voulais aussi qu'ils connaissent la famille de ma mère. Qu'ils sachent d'où ils viennent, qu'ils connaissent un peu leur identité et qu'en grandissant, ils décident eux-mêmes du type de relation qu'ils veulent avoir avec mes oncles et tantes. Beaucoup de jeunes, de jeunes parents avec lesquels j'ai travaillé à travers le réseau, ont exprimé à quel point il est difficile et frustrant de former son village. Comme on dit toujours, il faut tout un village pour élever un enfant. Et ils se lamentent sur la difficulté qu'ils ont à former un village pour leurs enfants. Et vraiment, tout ce que je peux leur dire, c'est que si vous croyez que c'est important, vous devez simplement essayer. J'étais une personne très introvertie. J'avais beaucoup de mal à parler aux gens. Je pense que pendant toute la scolarité de mon plus jeune fils à l’école primaire, je n'ai jamais regardé son professeur dans dans les yeux. Mais je trouvais tellement important qu'ils appartiennent à une communauté, au cas où il m'arriverait quelque chose, dans le pire des cas, mais aussi dans le meilleur des cas, afin qu'ils puissent apprendre de la multitude de gens qui les entourent. Et donc, de temps en temps, je devais sortir de ma coquille et les emmener à Art City, ou les emmener à West Broadway, ou les mettre en contact avec certaines des familles plus âgées de notre église. Parce qu'il était important pour moi qu'ils aient ce lien et ce contact intergénérationnel. Je reconnais donc que cela peut être difficile et je ne sais pas. Je ne sais pas si nous aurions pu y arriver si je ne l'avais pas fait. Vous savez, je ne saurais pas comment faire cela toute seule. Je ne sais pas si je le voudrais.
Amanda
Oui, oui. Non. C'est différent. C'est un défi différent pour moi parce que ma famille vit assez loin. (Marie : Oui.) Et euh, eh bien, vous savez, en fait, c'est une digression par rapport à ce sujet, mais c'est quand même assez intéressant. Alors nous allons faire une petite digression. Euh, j'avais l'habitude d'appeler souvent ma famille. J'avais une tante que j'appelais, je ne sais pas, tous les deux mois environ, et je lui racontais ce qui se passait dans ma vie, je lui parlais de ma fille, puis j'allais en ville, disons, enfin, c'était un long voyage pour moi, ça me coûtait au moins mille dollars, voire deux mille dollars, pour aller voir ma famille. Et quand j'allais les voir, je continuais à penser qu'ils allaient venir me rendre visite à un moment donné et qu'ils allaient m'appeler. Et, à un certain moment, alors que j'étais clinicienne, nous avons eu ce formateur qui est venu et qui a commencé à nous former sur l'accumulation compulsive et il a dit : « Vous pouvez accumuler des personnes, si vous essayez de maintenir des relations avec des personnes qui n'ont aucune valeur pour vous. Et quand il m'a dit cela, j'ai eu un moment de réflexion où je me suis dit : « Je pense que j'accumule ma famille. (Marie : Oui) parce qu'ils ne m'appellent jamais et ne me rendent jamais visite, et je ne voulais pas rompre les relations, donc ce n'était pas comme s'il y avait, au moins avec cette tante en particulier, il n'y avait pas de rupture, n'est-ce pas ? C'était plutôt que je me suis rendu compte qu'elle ne m'appelait littéralement jamais et ne me contactait pas. J'ai donc mis au point une sorte d'expérience où je me suis dit : « Tu sais quoi ? Au lieu de l'appeler tous les deux mois, je vais l'appeler tous les trois mois, et au lieu d'aller lui rendre visite deux fois par an, je vais lui rendre visite une fois par an, puis tous les deux ans, puis tous les trois ans, et je vais juste voir si elle répond au téléphone. Est-ce qu'elle viendra me rendre visite ? Elle ne l'a pas fait, et c'était la dernière relation que je qualifierais de vaguement saine. Et donc j'ai juste dit, vous savez, à ce stade, je consacre beaucoup d'énergie à entretenir une relation avec quelqu’un qui ne m'apporte rien en retour et... Mais je réfléchis à l'impact que cela a eu sur ma fille, parce que, elle aurait été adorable si j'étais venue en ville, elle aurait répondu au téléphone et aurait discuté avec moi si je l'avais appelée. Et cela aurait été une interaction positive. Hum, mais je me disais juste que, pour mon propre bien, je devais laisser cette relation. Mais bon, développer mes relations ici a présenté ses propres défis.
MarieOui, J'aime beaucoup ça et je pense que c'est vrai. Je dirais que même si j'ai fait tout mon possible pour que mes garçons restent en contact avec notre famille, notre famille élargie, quand ils étaient jeunes, en tant qu'adulte, j'ai rencontré quelques personnes qui m'ont dit : « Je pense que je peux laisser tomber maintenant qu'ils ont grandi et, comme je l'ai dit, maintenant qu'ils sont assez grands pour décider comment ils veulent entretenir leurs relations avec mes tantes et mes oncles. Je ne l'ai pas fait consciemment, mais en entendant ta description, je me suis dit : « Oui, il y a eu des personnes à qui j'ai dit : « D'accord, je ne vais pas vous contacter. Je vais juste voir si vous prenez le temps de m'appeler, de m'envoyer un e-mail ou de passer me voir.
 
Amanda
 C'est vrai. Mais en fait, je dis tout cela et très récemment, l'un de mes grands-parents est en soins palliatifs. Et donc j'ai en quelque sorte renoué avec cette tante, car mon grand-père est malade, et je pense que cela a en fait été une sorte de processus de guérison, car nous avons commencé à déballer un peu ce qui s'était passé. Et, et peut-être... Je ne pense pas avoir fait une erreur. Je pense que je l'ai fait de manière très consciente, très douce, en m'éloignant de cela. Mais ce qui est triste, c'est qu'elle serait la seule personne avec laquelle je pourrais avoir une relation dans toute ma famille. Donc, oui, c'est juste un défi intergénérationnel.
Marie
Donc, surtout si l'on considère que tu n'avait pas beaucoup de soutien intergénérationnel, quel type de soutien, formel ou informel, aurait été utile, avec le recul ?
Amanda
MMM… J'aurais vraiment aimé qu'il y ait une sorte d'association communautaire où je puisse me rendre facilement en transports en commun. Il y en avait une dans mon quartier, mais elle était vraiment loin de chez moi et à l'époque, je n'avais pas de voiture quand ma fille était toute petite. Mais un endroit situé près d'une station de métro aurait été génial. Euh, où j'aurais pu aller pour passer du temps avec d'autres parents. Je pense que cela m'aurait été très utile, et je pense aussi que cela aurait été bien d'avoir un grand-parent mentor, quelqu'un qui aurait eu à peu près l'âge de mes parents, voire plus, et qui aurait pu jouer le rôle d' , un mentor, comme un parent, un jeune parent qui n'avait pas de réseau de soutien. Cela nous aurait également été très utile dans notre parcours. Oui. Et toi ?
Marie
Hum, avec le recul. Eh bien, une ressource formelle qui aurait rendu la vie tellement plus facile aurait été un emploi suffisamment bien rémunéré pour ne pas avoir à se soucier des finances, mais à part ça, euh, comme j'avais un travail que j'aimais, ça compensait, je pense, en termes de soutien formel. Je ne sais pas, mais j'ai l'impression que nous avons eu beaucoup de chance. Hum, je ne sais pas si c'est à cause de mon éducation, mais j'ai cherché toutes les ressources gratuites que nous pouvions trouver. Hum, des subventions pour les camps aux cours de natation et de musique que l'on pouvait suivre gratuitement ou à un prix très réduit. Hum, mais ça aurait été bien, oui, d'avoir une famille adoptive, un couple plus âgé, qu'ils aient ou non leurs propres enfants, mais un couple plus âgé qui nous adopte en tant que famille et qui nous dise : « D'accord, on se voit dimanche pour le dîner » ou quelque chose comme ça, de façon régulière. J'étais vraiment douée pour trouver des soutiens pour les garçons, alors on leur a trouvé des parrains et marraines adoptifs et ils allaient passer du temps avec eux. Mais quelqu'un qui nous prendrait tous en charge, pour que j'aie un espace sûr où je pourrais dire : « Le garçon numéro un fait ça, et je ne sais pas si c'est normal. Est-ce que c'est normal ? Pourquoi le garçon numéro deux sent toujours l'oignon ? » Vous savez, juste avoir quelqu'un à qui parler. Oui, ça aurait été très bien.
Amanda
[Riant] Euh, ce sont de très bonnes questions. Oui, je suis même curieuse, d'un point de vue médical.
 
Marie
Et pourquoi est-ce que je rentre à la maison et que toute la maison sent les oignons ? S'il a joué aux jeux vidéo, c'est à cause du stress, de la transpiration. Maintenant, je sais.
Amanda
Eh bien voilà. Maintenant, nous avons la réponse à cette question.
MarieOui, chaque type de transpiration a une odeur différente ! [petit rire] Mais j'étais très reconnaissante, et peut-être était-ce dû à Winnipeg, Je ne sais pas si les mêmes ressources existent aujourd'hui, car j'entends dire que les parents traversent une période très difficile depuis la pandémie, mais il y avait beaucoup de ressources communautaires vraiment formidables sur lesquelles je pouvais compter pour assurer l'épanouissement de mes garçons. Et puis, grâce au Youth in Care Network, cette année, mon étudiante en stage a animé un atelier sur le thème « Nobody's perfect » (Personne n'est parfait), un atelier sur le rôle parental destiné à tout le monde. Renseignez-vous dans votre quartier ou votre communauté. C'est un atelier où il n'y a ni honte ni reproche, juste l'envie d'en savoir plus sur le développement de l'enfant. Mais étant elle-même une ancienne jeune placée, elle l'a spécialement adapté aux parents issus du milieu de l'aide sociale à l'enfance. Ainsi, une dizaine de couples venaient chaque semaine, partageaient un repas ensemble, suivaient le programme « Nobody's Perfect » sur le rôle parental, puis y ajoutaient la touche « Youth in Care ». À maintes reprises, nous avons entendu les parents dire à quel point c'était merveilleux de pouvoir parler des défis liés au rôle parental avec le fardeau supplémentaire que représente le fait d'avoir été pris en charge à l’enfance. Ils pensaient que s'ils posaient ces questions à d'autres personnes, leurs propres enfants pourraient finir par être placés. Le simple fait d'avoir un espace sûr pour parler et apprendre sur l'éducation des enfants et le développement de l'enfant, pour savoir que vous êtes normal, que votre enfant est normal et que tout ira bien.
AmandaJ'aime beaucoup cela. Si tu auvais un message à transmettre aux parents anciens jeunes placés, quel serait-il ?
 
Marie
 Trouvez une série comme The Cosby Show, elle vous aidera à comprendre. [rires] Non, je ne sais même pas s'il existe encore ce genre de séries familiales, mais si vous vous demandez quoi faire avec vos enfants... Comme ma question, quand mes garçons sont venus vivre avec moi pour la première fois, comment faire ? Non seulement j'ai regardé The Cosby Show à l'époque, mais j'ai aussi observé le personnel, les enseignants, les adultes de la communauté  qui m'ont laissé les meilleurs souvenirs et j'ai essayé de suivre leur exemple. Dans votre vie, vous avez peut-être grandi dans des foyers collectifs. Vous avez peut-être grandi dans une famille d'accueil, chez un membre éloigné de votre famille, quelle que soit votre expérience. Même si cela n'a pas toujours été facile, cherchez le bon côté des choses et essayez de l'imiter.  Et n'ayez pas peur de demander de l'aide pour tout le reste. Si vous ne voulez pas demander à certaines personnes, parce que vous craignez que votre enfant soit appréhendé, je vous suggère d'appeler le réseau d'anciens jeunes placés de votre communauté, s'il en existe un. Ou trouvez un adulte de confiance. Et si vous n'avez pas d'adulte de confiance, je vous encourage à trouver quelqu'un avec qui vous vous sentez à l'aise pour être ouvert et honnête, car vous n'avez pas à faire tout cela tout seul, vous pouvez former votre village. Cela demandera un peu d'efforts, mais vous pouvez y arriver.
 
Amanda
 Et mon conseil porterait davantage sur l'aspect interne. J'aime beaucoup ce que tu as dit, à savoir qu’on doit songer à la communauté qui nous entoure, ce qui n'a pas été mon point fort dans mon parcours parental, pour être honnête. Mais je pense que sur le plan interne, si vous avez vraiment du mal avec vos enfants à certains âges, que ce soit à cause de leur tempérament ou de votre propre traumatisme, peu importe. Je vous encourage à chercher du soutien et, vous savez, dans mes recherches, j'ai éttudié l’expérience des adultes plus âgés qui avaient été placés en institution lorsqu'ils étaient enfants, et beaucoup d'entre eux avaient des difficultés dans leur parcours parental, et beaucoup d'hommes n'élevaient pas leurs enfants jusqu'à l'âge adulte. Je me demande combien de fois ils ont perdu la garde, et c'était principalement au profit de leurs ex-épouses. Ce n'était pas parce qu'ils perdaient la garde au profit des services de protection de la jeunesse. Je me demande combien de ces histoires auraient pu être différentes s'ils avaient bénéficié d'un peu de soutien intergénérationnel ou d'un peu de soutien émotionnel. Je suis donc allée encourager les gens, en tant que personne ayant suivi une formation clinique approfondie et ayant travaillé avec beaucoup de personnes en difficulté. Je n'avais absolument pas réalisé à quel point mon histoire traumatisante avait affecté mon parcours parental pendant deux ans. C'est donc normal. Mais ensuite, il faut aller chercher du soutien. Il existe des ressources gratuites dans de nombreuses communautés pour obtenir, par exemple, une thérapie et ce genre de choses. Il existe également des groupes pour les parents, et je vous encourage vivement à chercher du soutien à votre manière. Et si vous êtes en instance de divorce, car beaucoup d'hommes qui n'ont pas élevé leurs enfants jusqu'à l'âge adulte, euh, c'était lorsque leur mariage s'est brisé et la plupart des personnes que j'ai interviewées n'étaient pas mariées à ce moment-là, ou avaient vécu un divorce à un moment ou à un autre. Je pense que si vous vivez un divorce et que vous êtes parent, vous savez, engagez un avocat, faites appel à un avocat bénévole, demandez un soutien émotionnel à votre communauté, impliquez-vous dans une église, un centre communautaire ou un YMCA, car cela demande en quelque sorte tout un village et c'est une période vraiment difficile. Je dirais que 9 hommes sur 10 que j'ai interviewés et qui n'ont pas élevé leurs enfants jusqu'à l'âge adulte ont déclaré que leur plus grand regret dans la vie était d'avoir renoncé à la garde de leurs enfants ou de l'avoir perdue au profit de leur ex-femme, ce qui a eu un impact sur leurs enfants et leur relation avec eux pour le reste de leur vie. Et cela peut être évité.
 
Marie
C'est évitable. Et je me disais, comme tu l'as dit, que ces pères ont perdu la garde au profit de leurs ex-épouses, et pour beaucoup de gens qui ont grandi en famille d'accueil, il s,agit d,une expérience de placement intergénérationnelle... Peut-être que votre mère était  en famille d'accueil et que sa mère aussi avant elle en famille d'accueil... Donc, jusqu'à présent, chaque génération de votre famille a vu ses enfants placés en famille d'accueil. Cela peut sembler horrible, mais ne laissez pas cela être votre choix. Cela peut sembler être le choix logique. Vous abandonnez tout simplement. Vous êtes frustré, cet enfant vous rend fou. Cela peut sembler être le choix logique, car c'est ce qui s'est passé pour les générations  avant vous. Mais ce n'est pas forcément le seul choix possible. Comme l'a dit Amanda, vous pouvez trouver un avocat bénévole ou un avocat spécialisé dans le droit de la famille pour vous aider si les services sociaux ont déjà pris vos enfants en charge. Vous pouvez trouver un avocat pour vous aider. Assurez-vous que vos droits en tant que parent sont respectés, mais vous devrez également faire le nécessaire. Vous devez également faire le nécessaire pour comprendre, vous savez. Quel est le mot juste ? Leurs préoccupations sont-elles justifiées ? Euh, avez-vous besoin de le faire ? Y a-t-il des choses que vous devez corriger afin de pouvoir offrir un environnement familial sain, et y a-t-il des mesures de soutien que vous devez mettre en place pour que vos enfants puissent grandir avec vous ? Vous pouvez y arriver, n'abandonnez pas la garde de vos enfants si vous n'y êtes pas obligé.
 
Amanda
Eh bien, cette conversation a été formidable. C'est vraiment une passion pour moi, parce que, tu sais, j'ai moi-même rencontré des difficultés dans mon rôle de parent. Tu as rencontré tes propres difficultés dans ton rôle de parent, et presque toutes les personnes que j'ai interviewées et qui ont été placées en famille d'accueil ont rencontré leurs propres difficultés. Et en fait, comme tu le disais à propos de cet aspect intergénérationnel, 34 % des personnes que j'ai interviewées n'étaient pas les premières de leur famille à avoir été placées en famille d'accueil. Il y a donc cet aspect intergénérationnel qui peut se répercuter à travers les générations. Mais cela peut aussi s'arrêter avec vous. (Marie : Exactement). Hum. Je pense donc que ce que je retiendrai, c'est qu'il faut commencer à prendre conscience et si certains d'entre vous ont des difficultés avec l'éducation des enfants, sachez simplement que c'est une tâche impossible. C'est comme un travail non rémunéré, 24 heures sur 24, 7 jours sur 7 (Marie : épuisant ! [rires]) Oui !  pour le reste de votre vie. Et bien sûr, certains âges sont plus difficiles pour certaines personnes, pour différentes raisons. Et certaines personnes ont plus de ressources que d'autres à différents moments, pour différentes raisons. Je pense donc qu'il ne faut pas se juger, mais demander de l'aide. Je ne sais pas si... As-tu d'autres conseils à donner ?
Marie
Ne vous jugez pas, demandez de l'aide. Euh, travaillez sur vous-même. Je veux dire, faites ce travail de guérison. Aimez cet enfant intérieur, afin qu'il soit plus facile d'aimer votre petit, votre mini-moi qui vous suit partout et vous rend fou quand vous... Prenez simplement soin de vous afin de pouvoir prendre soin d'eux.
 

L'équilibre/ Finding Balance

Pour faire suite à notre premier épisode qui portait sur la recherche du bien-être suite à la transition à la vie adulte, cette fois-ci c’est au tour de Annie et de Janis de nous parler de  l’équilibre dans la vie adulte et des défis que cela peut représenter – le fameux metro-boulot-dodo mais aussi, entres-autres famille-Santé et loisirs, le tout. Au fils de l’épisode Annie et Janis tissent un lien clair entre les défis qu’elles ont vécus à l’enfance, les apprentissages et les outils qu’elles ont su développer ainsi que leur adaptation face à l’adversité en bas âge. Mur de réflexions pertientes pour les professionnels et les auditeurs en générale, il est ici question de fines stratégies pour maintenir l’équilibre tout en souligant les dynamiques particulières de ce processus tel qu’il peut être vécu par d’anciens jeunes placés à l’âge adulte.
Cet épisode est en français. Je vous souhaite un bon épisode
 
For our second episode, our members Annie and Janis share some of the challenges they face in achieving balance in adulthood—the infamous 9 to 5 grind, all the while trying to juggle family, health, leisure, and everything else. Throughout the episode, Annie and Janis draw a clear link between the challenges they experienced in childhood, the lessons they learned and their adaptations in the face of adversity. Rich in content relevant to professionals and listeners generally, this episode discusses subtle strategies for maintaining balance while highlighting the particular dynamics and challenges of this process as it may be experienced by former youth in care.
This episode is in French. A translation of the full episode transcript is available on our podbean page:
https://gabriellechapdelaine.podbean.com/
We hope you enjoy listening to this episode as much as we enjoyed making it.
 
Transcript Translation:
Annie
Here we go. OK, ready. Hi, everyone. Today we're with Janis and Annie. We're going to talk about balance. So, let's start with the first question, which is, how do you define balance in your life?
Janis
For me, it's the key to happiness. It keeps me from going to extremes and gives me a certain amount of control over what's happening in my environment.
Annie
That's a very good answer. I would say that balance is found in all areas of our lives, whether it's family, sports, or work. I think you have to find a certain balance so you don't become, how can I put it, a workaholic, for example. Work takes up too much space and we don't have enough time to do other things. We have to find that balance to be mentally healthy. That's it. What helps you maintain balance, Janice?
Janis
One word: routine. For me, it's routine. Having a Google Calendar, always writing down what I have planned, what I have to do. I know it can be intense sometimes because it's always about preparation, always about the future, but at the same time, that's what allows me to stay in the present moment because I know what I have to do from week to week. It takes some of the pressure off. There's a kind of lightness after that. And also the fact that I went to school for a long time. I went all the way to university. So at some point, you have no choice but to be more organized, to make a schedule, a routine, and then stick to it to have a certain balance. Your classes mean you have a schedule to follow, and then you add sports into that. You see your family, your friends. It's like a good foundation for knowing where you're going.
Annie
But I agree that balance starts, I think, with school. We're in school from age 5 until you decide to finish CEGEP or university. And of course, for me too, a planner is really important.
 
I still use the old-fashioned method, which is a paper planner. I prefer to write things down because it frees up my brain a little. It means I don't have to think all the time. I also had to start making to-do lists. I was fine with "today I'm going to do this and that..." Then I realized that making to-do lists stressed me out because I never got through them. And I realized that you never get through a to-do list. That's what a to-do list is for. But I've come up with a new slogan recently, and it's called "Just for today." So, I make a to-do list, and it's just for today, I'm going to do that, and that's going to be it, my accomplishments. That way, I can find a certain balance, even at work. OK, today I did that. When I leave work, I leave work behind, and tonight I focus on my family, my hobbies, my passions, and my son too, because he takes up a lot of space. That way, we find a certain balance in a life that moves very quickly. We don't live life at a thousand miles an hour every day, but we try to find balance in it.
Janis
So for you too, it's a bit about organization?
Annie
Well, it's really part of my life. If I don't have organization, I'd be a little lost, but it's not a big deal either. If, say, we said to Laurent, "Hey, we want to do this or that," and today we're not doing it, well, it's not a big deal. And I'm telling you, it's not a big deal, but in real life, it is a big deal. Every time, I'm like, "Oh, we didn't do this or that." But then, when I think about it, I'm like, "Oh yeah, it's not a big deal, today I accomplished at least this one thing, and tomorrow there will be another accomplishment, and it's not a big deal." Yeah, but it's okay, it's like letting go and seeing what you've accomplished and not what you haven't done. That's right, but it's a daily struggle in my life to let go of that kind of thing.
Janis
Absolutely, I think it's something a lot of people have to work on.
Anie
Yes, definitely. Next question. To maintain balance, we engage in activities such as sports, dance, or other pursuits. What has been most helpful to you in your journey toward balance?
 
Janis
Well, when I was in high school, I was in the dance program. So I was introduced to dance at a very young age. I often performed in shows and learned all kinds of dance styles. I did Afro, belly dancing, Latin dances. And it seems like that developed my sense of rhythm. It also helped me develop a good relationship with my body. You know, feeling more confident when I dance, liking my body more, well, that made me... Can we cut that? That made me... I would say that I've been dancing since I was a little girl. It's always been a part of my life. I started ballet when I was 5. After that, in high school, I focused on dance. Then when I was in college, I was in a Latin dance troupe. Then I did a show. And throughout it all, I realized that I had developed more self-confidence. I had a positive perception of my body because I liked how I moved. It also helps you connect with people, you know, you have dance partners, you discover new cultures because I did Latin dance, Afro dance, belly dancing. And then there's also the fact that I did a lot of weight training. And with weight training, you need to be a little disciplined because, okay, three times a week I'm going to the gym, and then you see the results as you go along. It takes a little time, but the fact that you see the changes in your body, the positive changes, gives you confidence, and it makes you want to go back and keep going. I like that, I like that. For me, personally, it's been in sports too, really. In high school, I enrolled in a sports program, with five or six physical education classes a week.
Annie
Sports help you maintain a certain balance, but above all, it's your mental health that comes into play. If you have good mental health, you're able to maintain a certain balance. For me, in sports, I would go to sports, and when I got into my sport, I would leave everything behind, whether it was problems or something else. I didn't think about my homework, I didn't think about what I had to do at home in the evening. I also think that sports helped me channel my frustration, whether it was playing soccer or thinking that the ball might be mean, but when you're frustrated, thinking that the ball is someone's head, it feels good to take out your frustration on the ball and not in real life. People don't know that. For me, the ball was like my mother. No one knows that. I know it. I play soccer with all my heart, and it's really perfect. It's been that way with soccer, hockey, and Zumba. I've always loved doing lots and lots of sports, and I still do today. I do them, but a little less with the routine of life.
 
Janis
But it's true, you were a Zumba instructor. I trained to become a Zumba instructor, but I never taught any classes because of the pandemic. So I haven't resumed that part of my life. Ah, so it's to be continued. To be continued, perhaps, in the coming years.
Annie
But that's interesting, it's a passion we have in common. Yes. Because we both love Zumba. Yes!
Janis
You even have a Zumba tattoo.
 
Annie
Yes! I have Zumba here. Having Zumba tattooed on my heart really helped me a lot, it freed me. Because when I went to my Zumba dance class, well, I went in and I lived the merengue to the fullest, and all the music that goes with it, but you know, I went in there and I lived like... It was a party. So it feels good to let go, even if... Everyone else is on the right and I'm on the left, it really doesn't matter.
Janis
Same thing for me, when I do my Zumba classes, I don't think about anything else. It's just the present moment. That's it. I just have fun.
Annie
Really, that's what's important, and that's what you need to take the time to do in life, which, once again, is moving too fast. Yeah, it helps to have balance. Balance! What about your passion, what helped you refocus? Hey, that's not the whole question. Do you have a passion that helped you refocus? Do you have a passion that helped you refocus?
Janis
Yes. It's very simple. It's two fairly minimalist things, I would say. Reading. I love to read, I love to immerse myself in another world and leave everything else behind.
 
I'm so stimulated, I just feel good when I read. It helps me refocus and really be present. Then there are also walks in nature or just walks along the water. It just makes me feel so good. I practice mindfulness, I'm in touch with nature. My five senses are stimulated. And I feel like I'm editing myself a little bit at the same time. It really does me good.
Annie
 Perfect. For me, I would say that a passion that helps me refocus is probably writing. I'm someone who writes a lot. And I think that sometimes I'm better at expressing myself in writing than in speech, even though I'm someone who talks a lot in everyday life. That's why I started my blog, and I try to publish a post once a month, but it's not always possible. That's right, it's not always possible, but we try to set ourselves small goals to achieve it. I would also say that I really enjoy photography. I think that in photography, you can capture moments, you can feel emotions through a photo, you can try to understand things. But I don't like staged photos. So, you know, I don't want to go and take photos... You know, I'll take family portraits, I'll take... But you know, if I take family portraits, it won't be "Strike a pose, I'm taking your picture," you know. We'll do an activity, we'll run around to take a picture. It has to be natural. Natural, because otherwise, if it's staged, you don't feel the emotion, you just see fake smiles, and fake smiles show up in photos.
Janis
You can feel it.
Annie
 You can feel it. So there you have it, those are my two little passions in life.
Janis
And by the way, you say you like to write, but I know you were thinking of writing a book too. How's that project coming along?
Annie
Right now, it's not concrete at all, it's in my head, it's in my notes on my phone, but it's really... that's why I started with the blog, thinking that I'll start by writing on the blog, and then we'll see how people respond to it.
That's a great idea, I hope it works out for you.
Annie
Yes, thank you very much! How did you learn to develop a certain balance between social skills and how did you learn to develop that social side, to express yourself better or interact with others?
Janis
 I don't know if it's a good thing, but I would say I'm a chameleon. I adapt a lot to my environment and to the people I live with on a daily basis. So I tend to pick up a little bit, not their habits, but how they interact, and adapt to them. So I'm someone who adapts a lot to others, and sometimes I forget myself a little bit in the process. But I still have my own personality and my own way of seeing things. It's just that, it seems like I'm more... I'm more... I'm more... Yeah, I'm more... I'm more analytical.
Annie
Ah, that's good, yes. Yes, that's true. Yes, I accept that answer.
Janis
And you, how have you developed?
Annie
I would say that, given my past, I was really someone who closed myself off from others. I was someone who didn't talk. I didn't talk, yes. That's surprising. Surprising, huh? But I really was someone who didn't talk. And every time someone asked me to do something, I did it without complaining, without trying to confront the person. Even if I didn't feel like it, I didn't do it. I did it, excuse me. And it was hard work. When I arrived at Luc and Pauline's house at the age of 10, well, clearly, it was something that needed to be worked on with me because I was going to get walked all over later on, and I wasn't going to be able to take my place in society. Then it really started at dinner time, we would sit around the table, we would eat dinner together because we always ate dinner as a family. Then, okay Annie, you're going to tell me about your day. But at first, I didn't know what to say.
 
At first, it was like, okay, we'll set a 30-second timer, and then you tell us about your day. Then, over time, I took my place around the table, and I was able to talk about my days. At first, it was like, I had lunch, I did a math exercise. It was that simple. But over time, I was able to add more details. This and that happened today. Then it took a whole year of working with Luc and Pauline. After a year, I was a completely different person. And you can see that today. I mean, today I give lectures, I speak in front of crowds, it doesn't bother me. Put me on a stage, let's go, I'll liven things up. It's part of my personality now, wanting to... well, not to be the show, but you know, I take up space in a room, and I know it. When I'm there, like, people know I'm there, and that's okay. But talking and expressing myself isn't something that bothers me now. But you know, if we went back a couple of years, I would be like... I'll never get there, I'll never give lectures in classrooms, I'll never speak in front of 1,000 people, there's no way I could do that. And today, people have to tell me, "Annie, stop talking for a minute, let the others talk," and it's okay, but I also like to add details. So sometimes my stories are long because I like to add details, like that the person was wearing a red sweater, but in reality, who cares? So it's okay. So you really experience the... It's like you're with me when I tell you my stories. So that's also something that... It's immersive.
Janis
Yeah, I like that. We have a beautiful story to tell. But I would say that, for me, the reason I'm more of a chameleon with people stems from my childhood. My mother was a very difficult person to live with. I had to put my needs aside to listen to hers and be there for her. That means you end up living more for others than for yourself. What also happened was that my mother isn't the most socially aware person; she doesn't have strong social skills to begin with. So I feel like I've educated myself throughout my life, since I didn't always have role models around me or people to inspire or guide me. So that also played a big, big part.
Annie
As two former foster kids, we're resilient, I think the word resilience is part of our journey. How did that word help you in your healing process? How were you able to leave your past behind, so to speak, or move forward in life?
Janis
It's been difficult, and I'm still working on it today. You know, it's not something you do overnight. But I would say to detach myself a little from my past. You know, to tell myself, okay, that's not who I am, but it's part of me, it's part of my past and what I've been through, but it's... Like you say sometimes, your past makes you who you are today, it's a bit like that. And therapy, well, therapy, because there are things I don't accept. And therapy is what helps me get through it.
Annie
That's for sure. Yes, therapy is really a key element in the healing process, I think. But sometimes it takes a while to understand that. You know, when I was 18, I was sure I had made peace with my past. I was at peace, I had accepted everything that had happened. Then, as the years went by, I realized that I still had wounds, but I didn't really understand the patterns I was repeating. And finally, I realized that it was at the age of 25 that I attempted suicide, that I tried to end it all, and then I went to the psychiatric ward of the hospital, and when I saw the others around me, I was like... "But why am I here? Why have I ended up here?" " Then when I went into the psychiatrist's office, I said, "I'm not going to stay here. I'm really going to get out of here and I'm really, really going to help myself." Then she was like, "OK, you're going to help yourself, you're going to surround yourself with the right people, etc." Then I was like, "Yes, yes, I'm really ready. " And of course, the medication helps a lot. For me, it's something that isn't emphasized enough. Antidepressants. I've been taking antidepressants for five years now, and it helps me have a certain balance in my life, because my brain wasn't providing the... it's not a toxin, but...
Janis
Dopamine?
Annie
Dopamine, it wasn't providing me with dopamine. Then, with my antidepressant, it helped me regain that balance that I had kind of lost, where I was confused, that's not it, where I was feeling down. So that really helped me. And then, from there, I decided to go to therapy. And that therapy really helped me a lot.
I went to therapy every week for two years. I went to a private therapist because if I had stayed in the public system, I might not have seen anyone to this day, but that's just how the system works. But it helped me accept that I had wounds that hadn't healed. We agree that we just put a bandage on it, but the scar wasn't officially healed. And it really... That therapy... Let me see, excuse me. It helped me open my eyes to things that I thought were normal to have experienced or to continue to accept. But in the end, I had the right to be angry, I had the right to be sad, but I wasn't experiencing those emotions. That's when it allowed me to take stock of that. Today, I am able to express my emotions more. I also try to be able to say, "Today, I'm not okay, and that's okay."
Today is a good day, and I'm going to be smiling, but if there's a day when I want to get up and I don't feel like smiling, I have the right to have those days too. My journey has led me to describe myself as a very resilient person, which is why I'm giving a talk today called "The Journey of a Resilient Person." Wow! You have friends and family around you. What role do they play in your balance? Do you have any interpersonal relationships that have been particularly supportive? That's a very long question, so let me start again. What role do the people around you play in your balance? Do you have any interpersonal relationships that have been particularly supportive in this process?
Janis
I understand the question. How should I answer? I think relationships are the foundation of balance. We need others to be happy. We are social creatures, so it's super important. I think my friendships are what really helped me get better, find balance in my life, and feel that my life had meaning. Because I still talk to my family, but they're not the people who are most present in my life. I'm less fortunate in that regard. Otherwise, there are also the people I've worked with, people on the committees I participate in, people I've met. All of these people play a certain role in my life and help me find balance and be positive every day.
Annie
That's beautiful! I would say that my circle of friends came together more around the end of elementary school, when I moved in with Luc and Pauline. Before that, I tried to see the friends I had. I moved around so much between families that friendships became very rare. Or else, the friendships I did have broke down because I moved to a different city or changed schools. So it was hard to have any kind of stability or , I think, in those relationships. Then when I arrived at Luc and Pauline's, I was finally placed with them for the most part. That also allowed me to go to the same school from start to finish. I did middle school from 7th to 9th grade. I finished elementary school in a school from 5th to 6th grade. I said it backwards, but I was able to find some balance. I still have friends from elementary school who are still my friends today as an adult. I remember, I have a friend from elementary school who is still in my life. We became friends because of some lion makeup. We dressed up for Halloween, and I went to her house so we could do our makeup. We were so proud of that makeup. Today, we laugh about it because it was awful, but... It's one of the relationships I'm proud to talk about today. I have a friend from elementary school who is still there. Many people still have childhood friends, but this person has been my childhood friend since forever. We've been friends since we were 10 years old. Today, I'm turning 30. It's been a couple of years. Friendships like that are rare. It hasn't always been a friendship where everything was "all good." We've had arguments, we stopped talking for a while, but we always came back. And again, the key to that is that we've always been able to communicate and tell each other the truth. That's where we find balance in our friendships because, as we grow up, we have friends, friends, friends. But you're not supposed to have 25,000 friends. You can count them on one hand, the real, true friends who will be there when things are going well, but who are also there when things aren't going well. And I've experienced that over the years, where I've removed... well, I haven't removed, but I've ended friendships because they had become toxic for me, and they brought me nothing but negativity. And today, I've decided to surround myself with good people, just people who are healthy in my mind.
Janis
Well, you did the right thing by cleaning house because sometimes I find it's not easy. Well, it's not easy because you tell yourself, "Oh well, I'll give them another chance," but in the end, it always comes back to the same pattern, and that's when you end up unhappy in the situation.
Annie
Also, as adults, we often take different paths. I still have friends from high school. I don't have 25 friends from high school yet. But in high school, we have too many friends, clearly. They're all our friends. But as we grow up, you know, that's how it is. We're able to say... to ourselves, well, that's my friend. And you know, I mean, I have two... I have a friend now who's from high school. And you know, she has two children.
I have my family life, she has her family life. We don't see each other often, but we talk almost every day through voice messages and Facebook. Then when we do see each other, it's like we saw each other yesterday. It's the same, it's fun. But that's how it is, adult life takes over at some point, and then you have to juggle friendships and that life. But that's where you have to find that balance, to say, "OK, now we're really going to plan this." And then, you know, we called it our "mom date," because we go out without the kids and without the young ones, but just finding the date was super complicated. Hockey games, there are... Well, I have dance classes at Matisse. We all have something, there are children's parties, so you have to try to find your place. So you book it in the calendar and you're like, let's go. So we're having dinner soon in the schedule.
 
Janis
But I think lifestyle plays a big role in friendships. You're a mom, you're busier than someone who doesn't have kids and just goes to work.
Annie
But of course we don't... it's not the same lifestyle when you become a mom. In the evening, you have obligations when you embark on the second digit, as they say. So, you know, I come home, I have to take care of the house, we make dinner, we get ready for bedtime, and that's how it is. So, you know, of course, in the evening, I can't say, "Oh, tonight, I feel like going out for a drink on the spur of the moment." ' No, that's it. My son is waiting for me at home, and so is my boyfriend, but in the sense that... It's more about organization and making decisions.
We decided to start a family together, and if I want to go out or my boyfriend wants to go out, we try to balance family life so that we can each have our own hobbies too. We need time alone and time as a couple, just as we need time with our friends. It's really important. One question: in life, we have ambitions and dreams. What are your dreams?
Janis
 I like that. I have several. I don't know if they'll all come true. But one of my dreams is to be an herbalist. An herbalist is basically someone who makes products from plants. So natural products, which can be cosmetics, anything related to the natural world. Essential oils, spices.
 
Then I'd like to have... Yes, my clinic, but also maybe something like the Maison de la Lavande. So one day, I'd like to have my own land with my own lavender field, sell my lavender products, and organize events. A bit like what they do, but a different version. I'd also like to do retreats at my Maison de Lavande. Retreats that are perhaps spiritual or... or that help you feel more in touch with yourself. And then another thing: I'd like to live in another country. Maybe in Europe. I don't know, like Italy or Spain or France. I'd like to be an expat and always live in the sun.
Annie
Wow. Those are beautiful dreams. It's crazy because living in another country is something I couldn't... I could travel, I love to travel, I really love it, I'd love to travel more. But I've been tossed around so much, like, that now I've found stability in my home, you know, I have my house. And moving makes me feel crazy anxious and stressed. I know that when I'm at home, I'm happy, I know I'm stable, I want to be at home. And yes, it's fun to go to a cottage, to go on a trip. But how much fun is it to come home, to your things, to your routine, to your stuff. It's something like, you know, that's it, I'm rooted. You know, my house, I don't want to move right now. If we change houses, it's because we have another project to build for ourselves. But right now, that's not the case. So, you know, probably, but I would say that my dreams have already come true. It was to start a family. I'm the mother of a 2-year-old boy. I have a partner whom I love very much. I've been able to find that balance in my life, to find a stable, healthy relationship. That was extremely important to me. I promised myself I would be in a loving relationship that would be good for me and not repeat the pattern of my parents.
As for my other dreams, I have many, but one of the dreams I would really like to achieve one day, if it happens, I don't know, but it would be to give back. I arrived at Lucky Pauline when I was 10 years old, and it has been my family ever since. I would love to give back by opening a foster home. But it's not something that will happen right away because I want to start my own family first, and finish it. Also, it's not something you can do alone. If I try to become a foster parent, the whole family has to be on board with the project. It's a really big undertaking.
My other project would be to publish my book one day. In my own words.
To publish something I've written and put it out there.
Janis
Those are such beautiful dreams.
Annie
I know. And of course, not all of them will come true. But I think dreams are meant to... Dreams are meant to be dreamed, yes.
Janis
Well said. But I would say that dreams help us set goals, set objectives, and then move forward and say, "Hey, I'm doing all this to get somewhere someday." Then every little accomplishment will help us achieve a dream or a goal we've set for ourselves someday. Yeah, it's motivating. It gives us a reason to exist, in a way.
Annie
Yeah, really. Have you found a balance between your family relationships and other aspects of your life?
Janis
To be honest, no. Because the relationship I have with my family is very complicated. They're not very present people. They're super nice, super educated, curious, interesting. But they're not present and they're not interested, it seems, in maintaining that connection, staying in touch, and really making an effort. So sometimes I feel like it's not mutual. And I don't know where I fit in there. How do I keep in touch with my family without always feeling like I'm the one who has to reach out to them, I'm the one who has to make the effort, I'm the one who has to show interest. But at the same time, my family is super important to me. Deep down, I wish it were different. I wish there were a balance, that I gave as much as they did, and they gave back to me. I wish it weren't always so complicated, and that I didn't have to think about it and get nostalgic, because when I think about my family, I get nostalgic. That's what's unfortunate.
Annie
Interesting. I would say that I've found a certain balance in my relationship. I've found a certain balance, but it's not always easy because we have our biological family, and then we have the family we have today, whom I really consider to be my family, who are like parents to me.
And it's them I'll turn to if there's anything. But it's always heartbreaking. And it's something that's hard to explain today, why there's this ambiguity of having my biological family and my foster family. But I think family is something important. But you have to know who you give that role of family to. But I think family is going to be a topic for another podcast. I think it could be a great podcast topic. But if we finish today with the topics we've discussed, which are all about balance in the different areas of our lives, what advice would you give to someone listening to us today?
Janis
I would say be organized. That's the basis. Then have ambitions and dreams. It helps you know what you want. And when you know what you want, it seems easier to be balanced because you know how to plan your life.
Annie
That's really good advice. But I think so, organization, if I had to tell someone, I think being organized helps. But also not putting too much pressure on yourself. Because yes, there are times in your life when you're going to be... when the balance is going to be perfect. Perfection doesn't exist, so the balance will be ideal, but I think it's okay that there are phases when it doesn't work, and you might do less sport, and you might want your family less, and things might not be going so well at work, but everything in life is cyclical, it will pass, and you just have to trust life, and it will help you find balance and be happy in life. See you next time!
 

Wellness during and after leaving care

To kick off our very first season, we came together to discuss a topic that is particularly close to our hearts: finding well-being during and after the transition to adulthood following placement into care.
We had a rich and nuanced discussion, which we hope you will enjoy Happy listening!
This episode is in English
 
Pour débuter notre toute première saison, nous nous sommes réunis  afin d’échanger sur un sujet qui nous tiens particulièrement à cœur : trouver le bien-être durant et après la transition à l’âge adulte, suite au placement en protection de la jeunesse. Riche de discussion nuancé, nous espérons que ce premier épisode vous plaira. Bonne écoute!
Cet épisode est en anglais
 

De l'ombre à la lumière: Introduction to Beyond the System

Welcome to Beyond the System! In this brief introductory episode, we share the mission  behind the podcast, and what you can expect in the episodes to come. Whether you're here for new insight, a deepening connection to your field of work, or a spark of curiosity, we're so glad you're tuning in. Let’s get started.
 
Bienvenue à De L’Ombre à la Lumière. Dans ce bref épisode d’intro, nous vous présentons la mission de note podcast et ce à quoi vous pouvez vous attendre dans les épisodes à venir. Que vous soyez ici pour acquérir de nouvelles connaissances, approfondir vos aquis, ou par simplecuriosité, nous sommes ravis de vous « voir » ici. C'est parti !